Make PB drops have bigger collision

[MrMiguel211]

This will make it match across all versions (they were made bigger on PAL onwards)

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[Samuel6710]

Shouldn't it be preferable to have all versions match 0-00?

[MrMiguel211]

Shouldn't it be preferable to have all versions match 0-00?

Why would you want that

[Samuel6710]

Why would you want that

Well since the randomizer is based off of 0-00 and this could break some muscle memory with morphing at certain times to pick up power bombs or using charge beam when you can just roll under them to pick them up (assuming that the hitbox is large enough to be picked up by the morph ball hitbox in most instances). Just small things that break muscle memory isn't preferable imo.

[duncathan]

this could break some muscle memory with morphing at certain times to pick up power bombs or using charge beam when you can just roll under them to pick them up

how is muscle memory broken here? you can still do those things

[Samuel6710]

how is muscle memory broken here? you can still do those things

Technically yes, but this change makes it so that those specific strategies are unnecessary, so it'll still break muscle memory for players who want to adapt.

[duncathan]

I'd be much more worried about doing the opposite change, which would actually break muscle memory for anyone who plays on PAL (which is a supported version)

[Samuel6710]

I'd be much more worried about doing the opposite change, which would actually break muscle memory for anyone who plays on PAL (which is a supported version)

Why? PAL is much, much less common amongst randomizer players, and any randomizer players who have been playing for a while will already be used to PB drops' size anyways.

[duncathan]

any randomizer players who have been playing for a while will already be used to PB drops' size anyways

why would they be? if they're playing rando on PAL they'll be used to the PAL hitbox

Why?

making a change that makes old muscle memory not work any more is far more impactful than making a change that makes it suboptimal. with the PAL size, NTSC players can keep playing as they always have and it will work the same, even if it's theoretically a bit alower. with the NTSC size, PAL players will be forced to relearn strategies because their muscle memory no longer works. if we're worried about breaking muscle memory, it should be the PAL sizes

PAL is much, much less common amongst randomizer players

and racers are only a small fraction of randomizer players. they're both supported modes of play

[Samuel6710]

making a change that makes old muscle memory not work any more is far more impactful than making a change that makes it suboptimal. with the PAL size, NTSC players can keep playing as they always have and it will work the same, even if it's theoretically a bit alower. with the NTSC size, PAL players will be forced to relearn strategies because their muscle memory no longer works. if we're worried about breaking muscle memory, it should be the PAL sizes

In theory, players can continue to use their muscle memory, however in practice, it is natural and likely to adapt to the change rather then continue to do something that they don't have to do. The issue isn't that the muscle memory just doesn't work, it's that it becomes obsolete.
Additionally, making a change with the intent of helping the muscle memory of PAL players is a little peculiar when the vast majority of the changes between versions have been to follow the behavior of 0-00. I'd argue it's preferable that we retain many of 0-00's qualities because it is foundational to the randomizer and being able to help players experience vanilla 0-00 or even trying to speedrun it by applying what the randomizer has taught them is awesome, and even if the change seems small, it can make trying to have that experience difficult while providing little QOL benefit to the randomizer.

and racers are only a small fraction of randomizer players. they're both supported modes of play

I never mentioned racers. I'm referring to all kinds of players. I'm not sure if any statistic exists representing PAL vs NTSC, but I'd be willing to bet on the latter.

Also, part of me assumed that players who used PAL to play the randomizer already had to deal with smaller PB drops, but it's clear now that the game wasn't patched to behave that way. Still, even if it's "worse," it's still preferable imo.

[Uncle-Reggie]

I'm a little concerned about making a change like this simply because it doesn't feel like it's solving anything. This just feels like "the person making the PR doesn't like that these drops are different sizes in different versions."

We don't make the beam pirates vulnerable to PBs in all versions. I think this needs to stay as version-specific behavior.

[UltiNaruto]

what about making it an option so everyone is happy?

[MrMiguel211]

what about making it an option so everyone is happy?

That won't happen because everyone but 2 people would have it on due to it being clearly a superior no brainer option therefore making the option useless

[Uncle-Reggie]

That won't happen because everyone but 2 people would have it on due to it being clearly a superior no brainer option therefore making the option useless

What would be considered is an option named like "Standardize Version Differences" where we looked at all of them and decided which version difference becomes "default" behavior with this option enabled, like backporting PB vulns to beam pirates, this change, etc.

[UltiNaruto]

That won't happen because everyone but 2 people would have it on due to it being clearly a superior no brainer option therefore making the option useless

What would be considered is an option named like "Standardize Version Differences" where we looked at all of them and decided which version difference becomes "default" behavior with this option enabled, like backporting PB vulns to beam pirates, this change, etc.

That might be a solution yeah. I didn't mean obviously just PB drop size, it could be like you just explained above.