Realistic gearbox, and machine behavior

[QuenoGames]

Hey Dural, I'm posting this in the issues section because in your latest update (MoreRealistic20250622), Modelleicher's FS25_realismAddon_gearbox mod stopped working. It would be really great if this mod could work with your MR, because the default manual gearbox in Farming Simulator is a joke. All you have to do is put it in the highest gear and highest range, and you can plow a field. With that other mod, you really had to wisely manage which gear you were in when going uphill or working in the field. Or perhaps you're planning to create a more realistic gearbox for Farming Simulator yourself?

Also, a question regarding your latest update where you wrote: "- PowerConsumer: draftForce => at very low speed = more force needed (we don't want smaller tractors to be able to pull at very low speed heavy implements)". The problem is, I tested the same example I mentioned in our discussion: the MF 5713 with a Kverneland PW 100-12 plow. This time, the tractor pulls it at 3 km/h, and there's no visible difference after changing to narrow tires. Everything was tested on wheat stubble. Is there anything that can be done to really make the weight and resistance of working with different machines in the field more noticeable, and to make the difference in tire types more apparent?

[QuenoGames]

I recorded a simple comparison. Personally, I'd like MR to be close to result from fs17.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zle5J6yxYhg

[quadural]

I recorded a simple comparison. Personally, I'd like MR to be close to result from fs17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zle5J6yxYhg

this video is "private" and can't be seen by others (included me)

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I suppose (99% probability) that FS25_realismAddon_gearbox mod need to take into account MR to be able to "cooperate". (using both mods along). Indeed, Mr engine override a lot (all ?) the base game engine functions as far as transmission/motor engine are concerned. There is no way you could just put the 2 mods together and don't lose something except if they are done taking into account each other. With MR engine, you can't "just put the highest gear" and work field. In manual + clutch mode, you will stall your engine. And in other modes, you will lose a lot and time and speed (providing you achieve to move).

With Mr engine, there is nothing left from base game engine as far as transmission is concerned. (this MR engine logic for automatic shifting for example)

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I tested the PW 100-12 with MF 5713S, without any ballast on stubble (totally flat test map)

• narrow wheels (300/95R46) => 3kph max and less than 0.5kph if the tractor drive over ploughed land. more than 100% slipping (there is two way of computing slipping, this one means that when your wheels rotate 10 times, you move only 5x circumferences)
• wide wheels (600/65R38) => 3.7-3.8kph / was able to continue plowing when tractor drove over ploughed land / 50-55% slipping)

so, in this "extreme" case (nobody would work in such case because you will take much more time than with an apporpiate tool, consume much more fuel, and even get stuck or forced to work only in one way -downhill -)
the large tires option provides 25% more speed and better "survavility" of the tractor (less chances to get stuck)

But, in the 2 cases, we can agree this is not appropriate

Please also note that the MF5713S is not MR converted => it has 130Hp at the wheels and and "electric" torque curve engine.
Of course, this is not realistic (pull like a train).
This is as much power as a John Deere 4450

Here is another test :
same tractor + front ballast (1250kg) + agromacz 5 furrows plough

• narrow wheels => 8kph / 20% slip
• wide wheels => 9kph / 12% slip
• in this easier case, we get about 12% more speed (in perfect condition) between the narrow tires and the wide ones.
• and as you can see, you get better productivity than with the 12 furrows plough (and even more considering you gain a lot of time with the mounted plough compared to the semi one)

And a last one :
same as above, but after a rain, I am kind = only 50% wet ground

• narrow wheels => 5.8kph / 50% slip
• wide wheels => 7.4kph / 26% slip
• in this less easier case, we get about 28% more speed between the narrow tires and the wide ones.

now, if we do it properly = put one wheel in the furrow while ploughing

• narrow wheels = 3kph
• wide wheels = 5.5kph
• this time we got more than 80% difference between narrow and wide tires

Finally : please note (again ? sorry for saying this all the time) that ploughing is the "easiest" tool at low speed (I mean, compared to a cultivator for example, the draftforce curve against speed is less agressive at low speed for plough). If you really want to put tractors on their knees, just try to cultivate (deep version and while it rains for hardcore play)
You have to consider that the harder the conditions, the greater the differences between tires can be. (eg : 12kph is not "hard" condition for pulling => you need HP, but not "force". Most of the time, a tractor will hardly slip even without ballast at 12kph or above => less than 10% slip)

Spoiler : yes you can plow IRL with narrow tires, nothing preventing you doing this except "good sense" (more slipping, more wear of the precious tires, and something we don't have in game = tires are also rated for max weight possible depending on air pressure => you can damage or just "screw up" tire by under inflated or over inflated it... or just demanding too much of it (eg : driving at more than 50kph with low pressure and high load for hours ?)
And then, but don't expect to get 2-3 times more power or pulling force just by putting 600 wide tires against 300 wide one (you can, but only in some conditions, not everywhere, everytime)

Last note : we still have nothing to handle "draft force" (resistive forces) in the game physics engine. And so, we have to rely on "forces" to simulate that. And yes, this is bad at very low speeds. (too much forces = the implement would just pull the tractor backward, not very realistic... Not enough forces = what you experienced = too much speed instead of "digging" the ground)

[QuenoGames]

Hey, the video should be available now. My point is, when I compare the "more realistic" aspect in Farming Simulator 25 to Farming Simulator 17 , it seems like FS17 is actually harder, maybe even more realistic? Also, currently, tractors in FS25 don't flip over at all. I can park a tractor sideways on a very steep hill, and it won't tip.

Regarding the test with FS17, what I mean is that everything that was unmovable in FS17 with the "MR" mod can now be moved in FS25. And concerning the gearbox, I'm talking about the manual mode without a clutch. You can put it in the highest gear, and the tractor will just go. Modelleicher's mod actually fixed this problem.

You know, I've been playing with your More Realistic mods since Farming Simulator 11, and I always remembered it being harder to drive with a trailer, or pull a cultivator, plow, or other implement. In this current Farming Simulator, it feels easier. So, my question is, which MR version simulated physics better – the one from FS17 or the one you're currently developing? Or is it possible that because I've used the physics from older Farming Simulator games as my benchmark, and they weren't accurate, I now have this strange impression that everything is a bit too easy?

And I'll add, when I'm doing these tests, I'm not considering what's done in real life or whether it would make sense. I'm only looking at whether your mod can accurately simulate the physics of it, which was possible and worked great in FS17.

https://youtu.be/zle5J6yxYhg?si=1dh_Rp8gyEGcYVrp

[quadural]

your video = we need "scientific" data to tell which is right or wrong.
=> MR25 takes into account gravel path for example, MR17 would not if I remember well. So, in the video, 17 = earth path (quite slippy, particularly when wet, IRL). And 25 = maybe considered gravel path by the game (more grip than bare earth)
Then : what is the weight on the rear wheels and front wheels of the tractor in both cases ?

for the plough test = we can't see what we are talking here => these are not he same tractor and ploughs
MR17 : i guess a base game plough converted by me, and the tractor = also one of my conversion ?
MR25 : nothing from me

if you want to test that : first thing is to test with a proper tractor (200Hp for this plough ? choose a tractor so that you reach more than 10kph ) and note the speed reached in both cases. Thanks to that, you would know if the ploughs are the "same" or not (few differences in traction at these speeds). The difficult part = finding 2 tractors converted by me with about the same max power at the wheels (in MR17 and MR25).
Another point : MR25 also takes into account stubble/cultivate ground => like IRL, you get more traction while pulling over stubble compared to cultivated/ploughed land. MR17 = only one setting for fields if I remember well.

Also, currently, tractors in FS25 don't flip over at all

Converted tractors and trailers ? I would not dare trying to flip the JD3650 at 40kph with the ddk2400... it would flip in no time.
Even MR17 is arcadish for this point => this is a game. And physics is not very good.
If we set correct center of masses, everything would flip all the times. You have to consider many players use a keyboard (on/off) to play. And kids play the game too. And old guys too. Without a "wheel" controller and pedals (even a console controller is bad for direction change/brake sensitivity), it would be unplayable. Adn then, the physics system is limited compared to real life (no progressive suspension, wheels are only discs for the physics game engine = no width. Tires natural suspension (rubber deformation) which is very important IRL is not present in game, no stabilizer bar either, no link between the suspension system of each wheel like we have IRL for most trailers, etc etc.
There is no way you could do IRL what we do in game => we are taking corners at high speed, turning the steering wheel very fast
If you want to test your skills = converted MT6X5 + converted pottinger rotocare, and try cornering @40kph :-)

You can put it in the highest gear, and the tractor will just go

did you try that with one of the converted tractor ? I would not say "will just go". Tractor alone, the clutch will "slip" a lot, and you will definitely "go" somehow (like IRL, except IRL, you would burn the clutch in no time doing so)
But with a full trailer or working tool, I don't think you can.

Now speaking about IRL : you can make a tractor "go" in high gear. Many old tractors were started in hig gear because no synchro.
Example with "modern" tractor = John Deere 6800, powerquad. Tractor + empty trailer + some guys to help remove weeds in sugarbeets field => start in D1 (highest range, first gear) without a sweet. (about 12 metric tons total mass)
I personnaly don't do that (from 0, always start in C range, even empty) because I consider , even if it is "small", than it wears the clutch for nothing. My philosophy = the less time and the less rev on the clutch, the better.
So, I guess that, if you are brutal, and rev the engine and play with the clutch, you can (but you should not) start from 0 in D4 with this tractor + an empty trailer, on a flat path.

So, get back to the the game : give me an example with already converted stuff, to see if this is too unrealistic or not.

And I'll add, when I'm doing these tests, I'm not considering what's done in real life or whether it would make sense. I'm only looking at whether your mod can accurately simulate the physics of it, which was possible and worked great in FS17.

MR25 can feel easier than MR17. I don't remember how I tuned MR17. But IRL, there are really really really vast differences when we talk about traction. There are so many factors at play that in the same field, with the same tractor + cultivator for example, but not the same year, you can, in one case work at 8kph and in the other case not moving at all.
Soil moisture, soil composition, soil compaction, previous crop = all of these can influence a lot the draftforce and the traction force.

And : one reason I almost gave up with MR25 = we don't have access to the tire forces system (how much slip to give 100% traction => slip against traction curve, ideally depending on the surface. Because IRL, on asphalt, you get max traction @less than 10% slip, whereas in field, you would get max traction @more than 30% slip for example)
in all cases, 0% slip = 0% traction (no slip = no movement)
So I had to make concessions. And yes, at very low speed, this is not accurate (I mean, not like I would want it to be)

For your trailer test (going uphill on your video) : we need more data to say if this is unrealistic or not.
Total mass, mass on the tractor wheels, slope percent => with that, we can tell how much pull is needed and then, by knowing the path surface, we can approximate if this should be possible or not (example : an asphalt surface means you can get 100% of the weight of the driven wheels in pulling force)

[QuenoGames]

what is the weight on the rear wheels and front wheels of the tractor in both cases

FS 17 - 3720kg Rear 700Kg front + Wheels Front 138 * 2 = 276kg Rear 229 * 2 = 458kG total mass = 5154 KG
FS 22 - 1820 kg Rear 1800 Front + Wheels - I have no idea how I'm supposed to check this, because in older FS versions the file path was written, but here it just says 'dimensions=420_70R28'. And as I mentioned, I don't know much about this, although I'm constantly trying to learn something new

we can't see what we are talking here => these are not he same tractor and ploughs

These are the closest matching plows and tractors possible, without specifically creating identical machines with identical mass, etc.

i guess a base game plough converted by me, and the tractor = also one of my conversion ?

Exactly

MR25 : nothing from me

Didn't you mention that most mods added for MR work even without converting them? And in that case, are you suggesting that if these machines were converted to MR, the test results would be similar to those from FS 17?

if you want to test that : first thing is to test with a proper tractor (200Hp for this plough ?

And that's precisely the problem. It's easy to take a 200-horsepower tractor and pull a plow also rated for 200 horsepower; no one would expect surprises there. But what if you do the opposite? A 100-horsepower tractor trying to pull a plow that requires, say, 450 horsepower? It's exactly in these absurd scenarios that you see FS 17 wouldn't let you do it, while FS 25 will. The only difference is you'll just go slower. And yes, I know these cases don't apply to real life, but I'm constantly talking about simulating physics, not about what's done in reality.

Converted tractors and trailers ? I would not dare trying to flip the JD3650 at 40kph with the ddk2400... it would flip in no time.

I tested this specifically on a JD tractor, one from the medium range – I don't recall the exact model, but it was probably around 250 horsepower or something like that.

You have to consider many players use a keyboard (on/off) to play. And kids play the game too

Yes, I understand that, but on the other hand, you have players who want to have a realistic experience, who play with a steering wheel and want to feel that center of gravity.

did you try that with one of the converted tractor ? I would not say "will just go"

The test was conducted on a tractor without MR conversion, Have you perhaps tried using the mod from Modelleicher to understand what I mean, and do you think it's realistically done?

MR25 can feel easier than MR17

So, get back to the the game : give me an example with already converted stuff, to see if this is too unrealistic or not.

It would be best if you could compare it in both games. After all, you're an expert and created masterpieces like MR for FS 11, 13, and 17.

we need more data to say if this is unrealistic or not.

Yes, but the problem is, as I mentioned, I'm not necessarily an expert on this. I don't know how to enable all the debug functions. You're the master at this, and it would be easy for you to compare it. I can perform such tests and record them for you, but it will be limited to my current knowledge, which pretty much stops at XML files and typing 'Debug' into the farming console. If you want, I can record something like that if it helps you in any way.

[QuenoGames]

give me an example with already converted stuff, to see if this is too unrealistic or not.

Perhaps this is a good example? I mean, the cultivator hasn't been converted to MR but the tractor has. Considering that the tractor has 116 horsepower, if I remember correctly, and weighs 5 tons, while the cultivator has a recommended 300 horsepower and weighs 8 tons, I don't know if it would be able to reach speeds like 8-9 km/h. From this perspective, a setup designed to work with the Big Bud 747 in this game would be able to be pulled by some Valtra T series.

[quadural]

And as I mentioned, I don't know much about this, although I'm constantly trying to learn something new

Understood : what we need = dynamic mass on wheels. And so, you have to enable dev console, and use the "gsVehicleDebug" command. Then : "shift+2" in FS25 to display the wheels param and engine curves (don't remember for FS17, but it should be displayed on the screen)

Didn't you mention that most mods added for MR work even without converting them? And in that case, are you suggesting that if these machines were converted to MR, the test results would be similar to those from FS 17?

"Work" does not mean it is "right". => what the point of converting vehicles to MR if this is all good from start ?
What I wanted to say = contrary to other MR version, with MR25 and FS25, you can mis-match vehicles/implement without fear. Nothing would (should) prevent you from playing. This was not really the case with older MR and FS series.
Just don't mix MR combines and not MR headers because the power system is not the same at all. (base game = lot of power consumed by the cutting head / MR = only idle header power for cutting head. All the threshing power consumption is computed from the combine view)

If these machines were converted to MR, you would get what "I" consider ok for MR25. I can't say it would be the exact same as FS17.

And that's precisely the problem. It's easy to take a 200-horsepower tractor and pull a plow also rated for 200 horsepower; no one would expect surprises there. But what if you do the opposite? A 100-horsepower tractor trying to pull a plow that requires, say, 450 horsepower? It's exactly in these absurd scenarios that you see FS 17 wouldn't let you do it, while FS 25 will. The only difference is you'll just go slower. And yes, I know these cases don't apply to real life, but I'm constantly talking about simulating physics, not about what's done in reality.

you entirely miss my point here :-)
I said : test in each case with a 200hp tractor to see what we are talking about. Maybe in FS17 you will pull at 10kph and FS25 you will pull at 14kph this plough. In such case, this is normal to get more speed with the little MF 5700 in FS25.
Make sure in both cases, the tractor is pulling as hard as it can (no speed limitation active, no tool speed limit reached)

I tested this specifically on a JD tractor, one from the medium range – I don't recall the exact model, but it was probably around 250 horsepower or something like that.

again : not a MR vehicle = so, why are you expected a "MR" center of gravity ? this is base game vehicle = center of gravity like a cart :-) (a little tricker than this in FS25 = forcePointRatio of wheels cheated a lot)
MR engine is not magical : it can't "fix" any piece of equipment like that. For center of gravity, this is a parameter specific at each vehicle. And so, I need to convert to get something "right" (for the game).

Perhaps this is a good example? I mean, the cultivator hasn't been converted to MR but the tractor has.

I can only say one thing = don't play with "not MR" vehicles if you are expected a MR behavior (even at shallow depth, there is no way the 3650 would pull such an heavy cultivator at 8kph IRL. I suppose this is only a deep cultivator ingame ? and so, yes, this is not realistic. But this is vanilla game settings, not MR)

[QuenoGames]

contrary to other MR version, with MR25 and FS25, you can mis-match vehicles/implement without fear. Nothing would (should) prevent you from playing. This was not really the case with older MR and FS series.

Shouldn't it be like in older Farming Simulator versions with the MR mod, where the whole point was to intelligently match equipment to the tractor's pulling power and capabilities?

what we need = dynamic mass on wheels. And so, you have to enable dev console, and use the "gsVehicleDebug"

So, should I do these tests and send you the results? Or are you able to test it yourself and see the difference between one MR and the other?

what the point of converting vehicles to MR if this is all good from start ?

I understand that, as of now, converting a mod (tractor) to MR mainly involves correctly adjusting the mass, its distribution across the axles, the correct power and torque, and the proper center of gravity. Is there anything else?

I suppose this is only a deep cultivator ingame ?

I don't think there should be a difference in Farming Simulator with the MR mod whether a cultivator cultivates shallowly or deeply. That's because Farming Simulator doesn't really have a 'depth' mechanic, and it doesn't offer any benefit. So, every cultivator, regardless of whether it's designed for deep or shallow work, should have the same pull requirement.

[quadural]

Shouldn't it be like in older Farming Simulator versions with the MR mod, where the whole point was to intelligently match equipment to the tractor's pulling power and capabilities?

In my case, the point = converting most/all the base game to make it "playable" for me (and so, to make it "MR") and hoping Giants would notice the quality of play (far better experience I hope) we get compared to base game (total fail up now. They don't seem to notice MR at all)
So, yes, whole point = playing only with MR, as usual.
But I am not here to force people playing MR, and I know there are an awful lot of mods for each FS game (if someone's favorite vehicle is not MR, should we prevent him running MR engine ?)

So, should I do these tests and send you the results? Or are you able to test it yourself and see the difference between one MR and the other?

If you want to pursue your quest comparing MR17 and MR25, yes, you can provide more data. In my case, I don't even have FS17 installed and didn't play it since 2017 I think. (in fact, I think I didn't enjoy FS17 because I spent all my time running to try catching my delay converting base vehicles (and then DLC vehicles... and then... and then... it was a full time job).
Each MR version is unique and handcrafted from zero = no relation between them. So, in some cases, MR17 may be more realistic and in other cases MR25 is more realistic. Maybe the right balance is between the 2.
To get more realistic result, we should take into account the map
=> easy map = sand soil = easy draftforce
=> hard map = heavy clay = very high draft force

I understand that, as of now, converting a mod (tractor) to MR mainly involves correctly adjusting the mass, its distribution across the axles, the correct power and torque, and the proper center of gravity. Is there anything else?

wheels spring and damper
transmission fidelity to IRL (very important as far as driving experience is concerned, especially for a fixed ratio gearbox)
front ballast settings (tractor without front 3pt hitch) => most of the time, badly set in the xml (wrong mass and/or wrong mass distribution)
fuel consumption (just put the max fuel usage at max power, and MR engine will take care of fuel usage depending on load/rpm => better specific fuel consumption between max torque rpm and max power rpm)
pto ratio to engine rpm ("ptoMotorRpmRatio" param = "IRL engine rpm for rated pto speed" divide by 540. Eg : if your tractor is rated @1960rpm for pto speed => 1960/540 = 3.63)
differentials settings => my current setting = ratio:3 for front axle, ratio:2 for rear axle, ratio:1.3 for interaxle. and then, I set a torque ratio of 35% of the torque for the front axle (all that only true for a FWA tractor, not for a true 4WD like ford 976)
brake force

when everything is fine : you can also make use of the "gsVehicleAnalyze" ingame on a perfectly flat surface at still to fine tune some settings to get a "perfect" vehicle for the game.

I don't think there should be a difference in Farming Simulator with the MR mod whether a cultivator cultivates shallowly or deeply. That's because Farming Simulator doesn't really have a 'depth' mechanic, and it doesn't offer any benefit. So, every cultivator, regardless of whether it's designed for deep or shallow work, should have the same pull requirement.

this is not true : even in base game, the draftforce is modified between shallow and deep ("forceScale" param in the xml)
and even in the base game there is a difference in gameplay = weeds and stones (less weeds and only small weeds with deep cultivator whereas shallow cultivator = medium weeds which means only the rotocare can take care of that)
But I agree this is a little too simplistic. It would be better if we had to deep cultivate (let's say minimum = one deep and one shallow pass. And 2 shallow passes can replace one deep pass => player would at least need : 3x shallow, or 1x shallow + 1x deep, or 2x deep, or 1x plough)
Then, the game should take care of seeders too => some seeders can't seed directly over ploughed land (lemken solitair for example) => at least one shallow cultivator pass over the ploughed land needed)
Something to add to the wish list for 2030 !

[QuenoGames]

hoping Giants would notice the quality of play (far better experience I hope) we get compared to base game (total fail up now. They don't seem to notice MR at all)

This is really upsetting for me. Farming without your MR mod is unplayable, which is why I keep messaging you about it – I want the MR you're making to be as good as all the previous ones were. In my opinion, your mod is the whole game, and Giants Software's creation is just an add-on to your mod.

But I am not here to force people playing MR, and I know there are an awful lot of mods for each FS game (if someone's favorite vehicle is not MR, should we prevent him running MR engine ?

Everyone who played with your MR mod absolutely loved it, and nobody ever had a problem with MR mods not working with other mods. You had to manually adjust them yourself. You can just look at the ratings for your mod on Modhub from FS17—it was an absolute masterpiece!

So, to answer your question, I think anyone installing this mod, as the title 'More Realistic' suggests, should expect that it's not for people who don't like feeling the demand for power or traction. It's just how it is: if you want your mod to be realistic, you have to modify it yourself. I really hope you'll write a tutorial for a few machines—step-by-step instructions on how to modify them, like for tractors, trailers, cultivators, etc. Then no one will have any issues with it.

If you want to pursue your quest comparing MR17 and MR25, yes, you can provide more data.

My question is whether this is really needed. You know what I'm getting at, right? For instance, a Landini 120 pulling that Agromasz plow at 4 km/h just looks ridiculous. In FS17, that wouldn't have been possible. If it's an engine limitation and can't be changed, then fine, I totally get it. But if it is possible, I'm showing you this and asking you, as the one who built so many amazing MR versions, if you find this scene realistic.

(in fact, I think I didn't enjoy FS17 because I spent all my time running to try catching my delay converting base vehicles (and then DLC vehicles... and then... and then... it was a full time job).

Man, you have no idea how grateful the people who play with your MR mod were to you for it, and I am too. Great job, and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts for the time you dedicated to creating such a masterpiece.

even in base game, the draftforce is modified between shallow and deep

Wow, I didn't even know that

[quadural]

well, a lot of people can't even open an xml file (they hardly are able to copy-paste the zip file in the mods folder)
=> this is not a criticism : most people are not "tech saavy". Some gamers do use a gaming PC to play (mostly for mods), but do not know what a file system is. This is a fact.
And so : since ideally, I want MR to be "merged" into the base game, it means I had to take into account every kind of players. Not only the hardcore ones. MR engine has never be a "hardcore" version of Farming Simulator. If you follow FS series from the beginning, you can notice it becomes more and more MR with time. But really really slowly (at this rate, we would have to wait year 2050 to get MR11 equivalent in Farming simulator :-) )

Landini 120 pulling that Agromasz plow at 4 km/h just looks ridiculous

I would not be so certain of that. A mounted plough can transfer a lot of weight on the tractor. And so, when working easy soil (not clay), not too deep (15cm), I think this is possible for this tractor to pull the plough (lot of slipping, but still moving)
Of course, IRL, the 3pt hitch can't handle such a plough, so, no way to test that (and no reason).

We can do some math to "test" that if you want. Just tell me what tractor size and power it should require to pull this plough at 9kph in the game.

Wow, I didn't even know that

in base game, I guess this is hardly noticeable (most of the time, you are limited by implement speed limit, not tractor power)

Finally : You win somehow = I converted the pottinger Terria for you to have a MR cultivator for your tests. And I also modified the "dynamic friction" to limit the maxLimit when there are a lot of slipping => mr engine version 20250623
But : I didn't have time to check anything = I hope I didn't broke the "balance" of pull forces :-)

[QuenoGames]

well, a lot of people can't even open an xml file (they hardly are able to copy-paste the zip file in the mods folder)

I know a thing or two about this because when I had a Farming Simulator 17 server with the MR mod, I converted all the mods for MR myself. No one else even knew how to open an XML file, and even if they did, they wouldn't have understood anything. That's because, of course, in Poland we don't all speak English, so not everyone understands it.

I want MR to be "merged" into the base game, it means I had to take into account every kind of players. Not only the hardcore ones.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. People who don't want to play realistically simply won't download this mod. And nobody will be mad at you if it's more realistic rather than less. Or, if you're really that worried about it, maybe you could offer different difficulty levels for the realism so everyone can pick what suits their needs.

MR engine has never be a "hardcore" version of Farming Simulator.

Oh, for sure, I never actually wrote that, but if you still had FS17 with your MR mod, you'd see how tough it was back then compared to how easy it is now in FS25. And just a reminder, your mod was a hit even back then and downloaded really well, for example, on ModHub.

would not be so certain of that. A mounted plough can transfer a lot of weight on the tractor.

That might be true in theory, but this plow is completely buried in the ground. And another thing, if you compare this exact case of the Landini with the Agromasz plow, you'll see that the difference between the base game and your mod is quite negligible. Plus, it just looks unrealistic.

Unfortunately, I don't have that tractor and plow in real life to test it, so we have to make some assumptions about how something looks, how much it weighs, and if it would even make sense

Of course, IRL, the 3pt hitch can't handle such a plough, so, no way to test that (and no reason).

That would be really cool, though I'm not sure if it's possible: to add a lifting limit to each tractor, just like in real life. That way, you wouldn't be able to lift something really heavy with, say, that Landini, as if the oil pump just couldn't handle it anymore.

We can do some math to "test" that if you want.

I love that idea, and I'm all for it!

I converted the pottinger Terria for you to have a MR cultivator for your tests. And I also modified the "dynamic friction" to limit the maxLimit when there are a lot of slipping

You have no idea how grateful I am for this. Thank you very much!

I've just tested one case: the Terria 6040 cultivator you modified. I used it with a JD 3650 tractor, and I have to say, if you drive onto a stubble field, it actually works okay. What I mean is, if you drive on, lower the cultivator, and try to start moving, it's impossible. However, if you drive on with a slight momentum and then lower it, the tractor manages about 4 km/h. I'd like this 'effect' that happens at low speeds to occur always, so that this JD can't move it at all.

Just tell me what tractor size and power it should require to pull this plough at 9kph in the game.

For the Agromasz 5XL plow, I think a JD3650 is the minimum, with a Class Arion 550 being recommended.

Regarding the case mentioned above—the JD 3650 and Terria 6040—I think the situation is straightforward: the cultivator weighs 8.5 tons and is a deep cultivator. This means practically all tractors in the small category would be out. The absolute minimum would be an MF 7S, as it weighs 7.5 tons and has 210 horsepower. That's still a bit low for this cultivator, as it requires 300 HP. I believe something more sensible for this cultivator would be an MT600. The ideal combination, which would achieve that 9 km/h, would be a Fendt 700 Vario; it has the recommended power and, with weights, it outweighs the cultivator itself.

[QuenoGames]

MR engine has never be a "hardcore" version of Farming Simulator

You know what, let me show you something. In this picture, you have a Fendt 724 Vario that weighs 8 tons with a Horsch Terrano 5FM 4.8-meter cultivator that weighs 5 tons. The soil has zero moisture—I checked. And that tractor can't even move with this cultivator on a flat field You might notice the tractor shows 72% slip in the bottom right corner, but it actually has 100% slip because it's moving at 0 km/h..

: test in each case with a 200hp tractor to see what we are talking about. Maybe in FS17 you will pull at 10kph and FS25 you will pull at 14kph this plough.

I can answer that question for you right away: in FS17 it will be 0 km/h in every test, and in FS25 it will be about 10 km/h with the same tractors and implements.

I know I've asked you this before, but if you have some time, please jump into FS17 with MR and see for yourself how incredibly difficult it was there, and everyone loved that mod for it.

[quadural]

However, if you drive on with a slight momentum and then lower it, the tractor manages about 4 km/h

really ? did you try with deep mode or shallow mode ? I guess this is normal in shallow mode since we are talking of less than 10cm depth. But in deep mode (more than 20cm depth for this one) = I don't think the 3650 could move it (maybe with duals front and rear + heavy ballast on the front 3pt hitch)
This cultivator features a "load report" system to put some weight on the rear wheels of the tractor (IRL and somehow in the game). Which means you really have to check dynamic mass on tractor wheels to know if this is normal or not to be able to move this thing.
On stubble, a tractor can pull a little more than 70% of the dynamic weight.
So, if you can move this cultivator, in deep mode, with a 300hp tractor at 8-9kph =>
300Hp tractor means about 250hp at the wheel
=> 250hp = 184KW
=> 184KW @8-9kph = 74-83KN : let's say 80KN
So, to move this cultivator at 9kph, you need about 80KN pulling force
But, to move it at 4kph, you don't need so much. Depending on the tine type, the pulling force vary with speed. You need a little less pull force to move at lower speed.
Let's say 70KN @4kph => if we suppose the tractor can pull 70% of its dynamic weight on stubble => we need 10.2T on driven wheels to be able to move this thing at such a low speed.
So, yes, the 3650 may pull it at low speed in deep mode (may...)
tractor alone with duals or ballasted tires = more than 6T
front ballast = 2t
load report from the tool = 2T (?)
But it would really not be efficient at all
Of course, quite unusable since at the first difficulty (wetness, uphill, driving over not stublle land) it would slip at 100%

other point : 120Hp = 88KW => 4.54Kph with 70KN
so, since the 3650 is a little bit "opened" (see youtube grassmen 3650 dyno result), this could explain something like 4kph in the game.

Finally : in all of your tests, the most important thing =

1. how much dynamic weight on your driven wheels
2. how much pull delivered
   The power of the tractor = will influence the max speed reachable.
   But even a 50Hp tractor would pull a 18m cultivator IRL, providing there is enough weigh on the driven wheels and a gearbox allowing the engine to deliver the required torque to the wheels (very low gears in such a case) => but what the point to manufacture a 50Hp tractor weighing 20T ? working in field at less than 1kph ?

[QuenoGames]

did you try with deep mode or shallow mode

I tried both and the result is the same
Edit is a strange thing because I reloaded the field in Easy Development Controls, reset it to stubble, and now the tractor can't handle deep cultivation mode.

Sure, I understand what you're writing, but did you see that photo and what I wrote above and below it with the Fendt from FS17?