Dozenal

[iandoug]

Hi

There are some fonts with the "official" turned 2 and turned 3 symbols for dec and el.

https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/218a/fontsupport.htm
https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/218b/fontsupport.htm

Cheers, Ian

[WebDevBooster]

@iandoug I certainly know that there are such fonts but as explained in the readme the "turned 2 and 3" are absolutely unacceptable as symbols for dek and el.

I will never use those symbols.

No one who has even an ounce of understanding in regards to persuasion and seriously intends to promote/introduce a large scale adoption of the dozenal system in at least one country (as I do) would ever use such a cheap trick for creating new glyphs.
Yes, it's cheap and easy to do (in HTML you could just use CSS to rotate 2 and 3 by 180 degrees and flip them horizontally etc.) but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's not.

Persuading people to start using a new numeral system is an exceptionally difficult task. To have even a remote chance of success with this task you will need to apply many persuasion techniques. The more the better. Cheap-looking glyphs like the "turned 2 and 3" are not gonna persuade anyone. Such cheap-looking glyphs are gonna do the opposite of persuasion.

Once I have the time for this, I will start creating the dek and el glyphs for EVERY available free font and/or I will find the designers willing to contribute this work or might even hire some designers to do this work.

And once the new, proper dek and el glyphs are available for a large number of free fonts, I will start contacting the owners of proprietary fonts and pointing out that these new glyphs need to be added to their fonts as well.

So, with time, a vastly larger number of fonts will get the proper glyphs for dek and el. Eventually, all fonts will start including these new, good-looking glyphs for dek and el by default.

[iandoug]

Both the Dozenal Society of Great Britain and the Dozenal Society of America have switched to ↊ and ↋.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duodecimal#Base_notation

I SUSPECT the rationale may have involved

1. easy for font makers to add
2. depending on font, looks vaguely similar to stylized T and E
3. "familiar" ... not foreign-looking

I had nothing to do with the choices, but clearly enough experts in the field thought it was a good idea...

Been dabbling in dozenal for a few years without getting anywhere fast :-)

[iandoug]

You will need Unicode to allocate you two new code points. That's a non-trivial process, they will likely need strong motivation.

[WebDevBooster]

@iandoug I know that those societies are currently using those symbols but I will NEVER use them.

And if I manage to do more in terms of actually introducing the dozenal system into mainstream usage in the world (and not just for table talk among a few members of some societies), then all those societies eventually WILL switch to using the symbols introduced by me. It's that simple.

I've just added this page:
https://github.com/WebDevBooster/Dvorak-Booster-Keyboard-Layout/blob/master/why-turned-2-and-3-are-unacceptable-in-dozenal.md
explaining the rationale.

Just because "some societies" (or rather some individuals in those societies) made bad choices and have no understanding of a crucial topic (persuasion) i.e. something that's required for anyone who is even remotely serious about establishing this system in the world, just because those people made bad choices it doesn't mean that I have to stick with those bad choices and I won't.

The fact that the decision-makers in those societies don't have a clue about persuasion (which is what they have demonstrated by making those bad choices) automatically means that they have absolutely NO CHANCE in getting anywhere close to establishing the dozenal system as the main numeral system anywhere in the world.

That's why their decisions are completely irrelevant to me.

I don't care what they do or say. Because I actually happen to be someone who does have a clue in regards to persuasion AND I also have an eye for design and aesthetics.

That's why any of MY attempts to establish the dozenal system in the world are bound to be vastly more successful than anything those societies have ever done or will ever do.

[WebDevBooster]

You will need Unicode to allocate you two new code points. That's a non-trivial process, they will likely need strong motivation.

Yep! Absolutely true and I'm fully aware of that!

That is most definitely not a trivial process but it will be a very fun thing to do!

And I most definitely have the motivation to do that!