Harman +4db target curve

[jean38200]

Hello, first of all, congratulations on your fabulous work. You have successfully automated time alignment accurately on Audyssey. This was not an easy task :-). If I change your script from line 223 by replacing the Toole target values ​​with that of Harman +4db, and of course change EQ in REW with the Harman +4db target curve. Will the phase and amplitude alignment, and the subwoofer + speaker alignment frequency be taken into account for the compilation?
Thank you

[ObsessiveCompulsiveAudiophile]

Just replacing Dr Toole with Harmon curve in REW/EQ will suffice, no need to change the code. XO rates will not be very reliable though.

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On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 at 15:22, jean38200 ***@***.***> wrote: Hello, first of all, congratulations on your fabulous work. You have successfully automated time alignment accurately on Audyssey. This was not an easy task :-). If I change your script from line 223 by replacing the Toole target values ​​with that of Harman +4db, and of course change EQ in REW with the Harman +4db target curve. Will the phase and amplitude alignment, and the subwoofer + speaker alignment frequency be taken into account for the compilation? Thank you — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACLH4TBMXSQFQ6PGGSQPHL3Y3KPJNAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43ASLTON2WKOZSGIZDAMZYGIYTQNQ> . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[jean38200]

Thank you for your very quick response. Exactly, I understood that the calculation of the Xovers in your script is based on the Toole target curve. I clearly saw that if I put the Harman curve in REW, the SPL correction is made according to Harman to the detriment of the phase in the Xovers zone. So my question was to know if I replaced Toole's values ​​in your script with those of harman would the phase alignment (sub + speakers) be improved?

[ObsessiveCompulsiveAudiophile]

It's not possible to know in advance. I have to check with Harmon.

…

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 at 15:53, jean38200 ***@***.***> wrote: Thank you for your very quick response. Exactly, I understood that the calculation of the Xovers in your script is based on the Toole target curve. I clearly saw that if I put the Harman curve in REW, the SPL correction is made according to Harman to the detriment of the phase in the Xovers zone. So my question was to know if I replaced Toole's values ​​in your script with those of harman would the phase alignment (sub + speakers) be improved? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACLH4TEXTS6GADA22WB7P4LY3KS5PAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDAMZRHE3DMMRSHE> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[jean38200]

thank you, I already have 5 different Ady files for different rooms. I'll try it myself and not bother you anymore. I will report back to you :-)

[bramcn]

Thanks OCA for this suburb work!!
Just curious, if either of you (OCA or Jean) figured out how best to replace the Toole Curve with the Harmon Curve and correctly apply the appropriate phase/Xovers within the A1 script?

I,m 62 years old, so my hearing isn't nearly as precise as you younger folks, but I/we still LOVE to listen to music (and watch movies). My system is fairly decent (Denon AVR X6700, 7.2.4 setup incl 2x SVS 3000 PB sub's).

I noted that when I A/B compare the sound of the original unedited MultiEQ Editor application against your new A1 v1.3, I definitely find that your new A1 sounds amazingly clean, clear and crisp. In fact, incredibly clean, clear and crisp. However, the original unedited MultiEQ app seems to have slightly more sub/mid bass depth?? Yes, I've turned on the Dynamic EQ and slightly increased both subs a couple of points, which helps but I notice if I turn the bass up too much it muddy's the overall sound. Increasing the sub/mid bass a little helps but it doesn't feel quite as filling as the original unedited MultiEQ bass? Was thinking that a cross between the two ie: original and A1, would be perfect, LOL. I might be too picky as the sound of the A1 is amazing, but would like to hear just a little more of the lower sub/mid bass incorporated with the A1 clarity.

Hence thought that experimenting with the proper incorporation of the Harmon Curve into your A1 (as Jean noted) might help in this regard? Just curious of your/anyone's thoughts in this regard.
Thanks a ton.

[ObsessiveCompulsiveAudiophile]

Can you share your original ady file?

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On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 at 20:57, bramcn ***@***.***> wrote: Thanks OCA for this suburb work!! Just curious, if either of you (OCA or Jean) figured out how best to replace the Toole Curve with the Harmon Curve and correctly apply the appropriate phase/Xovers within the A1 script? I,m 62 years old, so my hearing isn't nearly as precise as you younger folks, but I/we still LOVE to listen to music (and watch movies). My system is fairly decent (Denon AVR X6700, 7.2.4 setup incl 2x SVS 3000 PB sub's). I noted that when I A/B compare the sound of the original unedited MultiEQ Editor application against your new A1 v1.3, I definitely find that your new A1 sounds amazingly clean, clear and crisp. In fact, incredibly clean, clear and crisp. However, the original unedited MultiEQ app seems to have slightly more sub/mid bass depth?? Yes, I've turned on the Dynamic EQ and slightly increased both subs a couple of points, which helps but I notice if I turn the bass up too much it muddy's the overall sound. Increasing the sub/mid bass a little helps but it doesn't feel quite as filling as the original unedited MultiEQ bass? Was thinking that a cross between the two ie: original and A1, would be perfect, LOL. I might be too picky as the sound of the A1 is amazing, but would like to hear just a little more of the lower sub/mid bass incorporated with the A1 clarity. Hence thought that experimenting with the proper incorporation of the Harmon Curve into your A1 (as Jean noted) might help in this regard? Just curious of your/anyone's thoughts in this regard. Thanks a ton. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACLH4TG5NSTX32GD2FYYLGLY43FJFAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDANJQGIYTMNZRGY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[bramcn]

I've tried to attach it but get a message ... "we don't support that file type"? It's in DropBox is there an easy way to send it to you?

[ObsessiveCompulsiveAudiophile]

Can you not post the dropbox link?

[bramcn]

Never done that before, hope this is what you need.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6i0u4ygpl8966e22kstdd/Feb.20.24-AudyMic-DEQon-MidOff.ady?rlkey=b57nid6v7n53y0qzlg6y9gdp9&dl=0

[ObsessiveCompulsiveAudiophile]

You shouldn't be needing DEQ with this one:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sqnve91g4g65r-pUP54atu8EKWyC1fWQ/view?usp=sharing

Target curve is the same, I only adjusted the sub and fronts to remove some dips.

[bramcn]

Thank you very much for your immediate actions. I have the grandkids right now … so will check it out a little later and get right back to you. Cheers.

…

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 1:41 PM Serkan Gür ***@***.***> wrote: You shouldn't be needing DEQ with this one: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sqnve91g4g65r-pUP54atu8EKWyC1fWQ/view?usp=sharing Target curve is the same, I only adjusted the sub and fronts to remove some dips. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BHYEVBEZLEQEO4XRPFZ7ULTY43RQHAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDANJQGM4TMMZTGA> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[bramcn]

Apologize for the delay in getting back to you.

Sound comparison:

1. For clarity, what I'm comparing is an original Audyssey file created via Denon/MultiEQ (with the mid comp turned off and DEQ on, both manually selected), the new A1 v1.3, and the .ady file you just sent me above (which I believe is a hybrid of my original Audyssey with with your personal tweaks?).
2. Further to the new file you sent me, I do notice a subtle bass improvement over the A1 file, but still not as much bass as the original Audyssey file with mid off and DEQ on. I notice that the overall sound with your new file, is improved with the DEQ on, which makes the bass response really close to the original Audyssey file, and with similar clarity to the newer A1 file. I guess I must prefer a little more bass in my system??
3. Unfortunately, I noticed that the original Audyssey file I had sent you above had the fronts set at full and with a 40hz crossover point. That's not normally how I have that file setup within my system; I must have made a change to that file within MultiEQ Editor at some point and forgot to change it back to: small and 80hz ... sorry about sending you that wrong file. Will this dramatically impact the intimate custom details within that new file you just sent me? Or can I simply change those 2 items back to small and 80hz, without compromising the other the intimate details (freq, phase, distance etc.) contained in that file?
4. As a footnote, I noticed that when I manually changed the fronts to small and 80hz, in the file you sent me, that the bass improved even more. Could this be as a result of slight phase differences between the fronts and sub, causing some cancelation with the large and 40hz crossover settings??

Jason comparisons:
5. I noticed that the "customTargetCurvePoints" and "customDistance" in your new file were quite different relative to the original Audyssey file ie: FL Speaker "customTargetCurvePoints" = 1076 vs 3512 and "customDistance" = 2.8 vs 2.98. In fact the customTargetCurvePoints and distances changed in all the speakers, albeit more dramatic with the Fronts and Subs, which you focused on.
6. Curious, did you use a modified A1 program or manually generate via REW, that new file you sent me? I ask this question in case further to your response to my question in 3 above, if we will need to rerun the file again using small and 80hz, or can I do it with your further instruction?
7. In case your interested, following is the link to the file I should have originally sent you. You'll note that the DEQ and midcomp are off. However when I use this file I do turn the DEQ on and midcomp off.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h7vzxxron67l3zaj90wps/Feb-20.24-AudyMic-As-Tested-Nochanges.ady?rlkey=sbcp84ak4g7pjn8hqlgnti5ir&dl=0

Overall, the new file you sent me improves the bass slightly and appears to keep the clarity and openness of the newly created A1 file. However, has less bass than the original Audyssey file, so I still prefer to have the DEQ on, which creates deeper fuller bass.
Thanks again for all your work and please continue with the amazing upgrades, evolution and improvements, benifiting the Home Theater and Music world!!
CHEERS

[ObsessiveCompulsiveAudiophile]

Hi, I'm out tonight. I'll get back to you tomorrow. Sent from Gmail Mobile

…

On Fri 12. Apr 2024 at 22:14, bramcn ***@***.***> wrote: Apologize for the delay in getting back to you. *Sound comparison:* 1. For clarity, what I'm comparing is an original Audyssey file created via Denon/MultiEQ (with the mid comp turned off and DEQ on, both manually selected), the new A1 v1.3, and the .ady file you just sent me above (which I believe is a hybrid of my original Audyssey with with your personal tweaks?). 2. Further to the new file you sent me, I do notice a subtle bass improvement over the A1 file, but still not as much bass as the original Audyssey file with mid off and DEQ on. I notice that the overall sound with your new file, is improved with the *DEQ on*, which makes the bass response really close to the original Audyssey file, and with similar clarity to the newer A1 file. I guess I must prefer a little more bass in my system?? 3. Unfortunately, I noticed that the original Audyssey file I had sent you above had the fronts set at full and with a 40hz crossover point. That's *not* normally how I have that file setup within my system; I must have made a change to that file within MultiEQ Editor at some point and forgot to change it back to: small and 80hz ... sorry about sending you that wrong file. Will this dramatically impact the intimate custom details within that new file you just sent me? Or can I simply change those 2 items back to small and 80hz, without compromising the other the intimate details (freq, phase, distance etc.) contained in that file? 4. As a footnote, I noticed that when I manually changed the fronts to small and 80hz, in the file you sent me, that the bass improved even more. Could this be as a result of slight phase differences between the fronts and sub, causing some cancelation with the large and 40hz crossover settings?? *Jason comparisons:* 5. I noticed that the "customTargetCurvePoints" and "customDistance" in your new file were quite different relative to the original Audyssey file ie: FL Speaker "customTargetCurvePoints" = 1076 vs 3512 and "customDistance" = 2.8 vs 2.98. In fact the customTargetCurvePoints and distances changed in all the speakers, albeit more dramatic with the Fronts and Subs, which you focused on. 6. Curious, did you use a modified A1 program or manually generate via REW, that new file you sent me? I ask this question in case further to your response to my question in 3 above, if we will need to rerun the file again using small and 80hz, or can I do it with your further instruction? 7. In case your interested, following is the link to the file I should have originally sent you. You'll note that the DEQ and midcomp are off. However when I use this file I do turn the DEQ on and midcomp off. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h7vzxxron67l3zaj90wps/Feb-20.24-AudyMic-As-Tested-Nochanges.ady?rlkey=sbcp84ak4g7pjn8hqlgnti5ir&dl=0 Overall, the new file you sent me improves the bass slightly and appears to keep the clarity and openness of the newly created A1 file. However, has less bass than the original Audyssey file, so I still prefer to have the DEQ on, which creates deeper fuller bass. Thanks again for all your work and please continue with the amazing upgrades, evolution and improvements, benifiting the Home Theater and Music world!! CHEERS — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACLH4TGUALQMPD3L5FGLONLY5AXDFAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDANJSGM4DINRYGY> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[bramcn]

Sounds good, have a great evening and enjoy your time out.

…

On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 3:31 PM Serkan Gür ***@***.***> wrote: Hi, I'm out tonight. I'll get back to you tomorrow. Sent from Gmail Mobile On Fri 12. Apr 2024 at 22:14, bramcn ***@***.***> wrote: > Apologize for the delay in getting back to you. > > *Sound comparison:* > > 1. For clarity, what I'm comparing is an original Audyssey file > created via Denon/MultiEQ (with the mid comp turned off and DEQ on, both > manually selected), the new A1 v1.3, and the .ady file you just sent me > above (which I believe is a hybrid of my original Audyssey with with your > personal tweaks?). > 2. Further to the new file you sent me, I do notice a subtle bass > improvement over the A1 file, but still not as much bass as the original > Audyssey file with mid off and DEQ on. I notice that the overall sound with > your new file, is improved with the *DEQ on*, which makes the bass > response really close to the original Audyssey file, and with similar > clarity to the newer A1 file. I guess I must prefer a little more bass in > my system?? > 3. Unfortunately, I noticed that the original Audyssey file I had sent > you above had the fronts set at full and with a 40hz crossover point. > That's *not* normally how I have that file setup within my system; I > must have made a change to that file within MultiEQ Editor at some point > and forgot to change it back to: small and 80hz ... sorry about sending you > that wrong file. Will this dramatically impact the intimate custom details > within that new file you just sent me? Or can I simply change those 2 items > back to small and 80hz, without compromising the other the intimate details > (freq, phase, distance etc.) contained in that file? > 4. As a footnote, I noticed that when I manually changed the fronts to > small and 80hz, in the file you sent me, that the bass improved even more. > Could this be as a result of slight phase differences between the fronts > and sub, causing some cancelation with the large and 40hz crossover > settings?? > > *Jason comparisons:* > 5. I noticed that the "customTargetCurvePoints" and "customDistance" in > your new file were quite different relative to the original Audyssey file > ie: FL Speaker "customTargetCurvePoints" = 1076 vs 3512 and > "customDistance" = 2.8 vs 2.98. In fact the customTargetCurvePoints and > distances changed in all the speakers, albeit more dramatic with the Fronts > and Subs, which you focused on. > 6. Curious, did you use a modified A1 program or manually generate via > REW, that new file you sent me? I ask this question in case further to your > response to my question in 3 above, if we will need to rerun the file again > using small and 80hz, or can I do it with your further instruction? > 7. In case your interested, following is the link to the file I should > have originally sent you. You'll note that the DEQ and midcomp are off. > However when I use this file I do turn the DEQ on and midcomp off. > > > https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h7vzxxron67l3zaj90wps/Feb-20.24-AudyMic-As-Tested-Nochanges.ady?rlkey=sbcp84ak4g7pjn8hqlgnti5ir&dl=0 > > Overall, the new file you sent me improves the bass slightly and appears > to keep the clarity and openness of the newly created A1 file. However, has > less bass than the original Audyssey file, so I still prefer to have the > DEQ on, which creates deeper fuller bass. > Thanks again for all your work and please continue with the amazing > upgrades, evolution and improvements, benifiting the Home Theater and Music > world!! > CHEERS > > — > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > < #9 (comment)>, > or unsubscribe > < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACLH4TGUALQMPD3L5FGLONLY5AXDFAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDANJSGM4DINRYGY> > . > You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: > ***@***.***> > — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BHYEVBBCXQODRQL464NTUYLY5BHBRAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDANJSGU3DOOBUGA> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[ObsessiveCompulsiveAudiophile]

The attached ady is the best I can do with your measurements. You should not be using DEQ with it. If you need to use DEQ at around -30dB volume levels, that means the calibration is far from good (or you really love a lot of bass because DEQ will still be adding about 10dB to bass at -30dB). Some problems I have seen in your measurements which I think causes A1 to fail are: 1. FL and FR are more than 10dB louder than the rest of your speakers, that's odd unless you're using a power amp for your fronts. 2. Speakers are not symmetrically placed, have different distances to MLP and have different reflections. For that kind of configuration to work well, you may need closer mic positions during Audyssey calibration. Your mic positions had more than 1.1m between them. SBL and SBR speakers were especially problematic (had to invert SBR to match the rest of the system) I have tried some new techniques in your ady file and please let me know if this new ady file doesn't sound "much" better. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MWC8rPFqXZJzCuFOPmyygE19zJ7FkgpB/view?usp=sharing Cheers, OCA

…

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 at 01:46, bramcn ***@***.***> wrote: Sounds good, have a great evening and enjoy your time out. On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 3:31 PM Serkan Gür ***@***.***> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm out tonight. I'll get back to you tomorrow. > > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > > On Fri 12. Apr 2024 at 22:14, bramcn ***@***.***> wrote: > > > Apologize for the delay in getting back to you. > > > > *Sound comparison:* > > > > 1. For clarity, what I'm comparing is an original Audyssey file > > created via Denon/MultiEQ (with the mid comp turned off and DEQ on, both > > manually selected), the new A1 v1.3, and the .ady file you just sent me > > above (which I believe is a hybrid of my original Audyssey with with > your > > personal tweaks?). > > 2. Further to the new file you sent me, I do notice a subtle bass > > improvement over the A1 file, but still not as much bass as the original > > Audyssey file with mid off and DEQ on. I notice that the overall sound > with > > your new file, is improved with the *DEQ on*, which makes the bass > > response really close to the original Audyssey file, and with similar > > clarity to the newer A1 file. I guess I must prefer a little more bass > in > > my system?? > > 3. Unfortunately, I noticed that the original Audyssey file I had sent > > you above had the fronts set at full and with a 40hz crossover point. > > That's *not* normally how I have that file setup within my system; I > > must have made a change to that file within MultiEQ Editor at some point > > and forgot to change it back to: small and 80hz ... sorry about sending > you > > that wrong file. Will this dramatically impact the intimate custom > details > > within that new file you just sent me? Or can I simply change those 2 > items > > back to small and 80hz, without compromising the other the intimate > details > > (freq, phase, distance etc.) contained in that file? > > 4. As a footnote, I noticed that when I manually changed the fronts to > > small and 80hz, in the file you sent me, that the bass improved even > more. > > Could this be as a result of slight phase differences between the fronts > > and sub, causing some cancelation with the large and 40hz crossover > > settings?? > > > > *Jason comparisons:* > > 5. I noticed that the "customTargetCurvePoints" and "customDistance" in > > your new file were quite different relative to the original Audyssey > file > > ie: FL Speaker "customTargetCurvePoints" = 1076 vs 3512 and > > "customDistance" = 2.8 vs 2.98. In fact the customTargetCurvePoints and > > distances changed in all the speakers, albeit more dramatic with the > Fronts > > and Subs, which you focused on. > > 6. Curious, did you use a modified A1 program or manually generate via > > REW, that new file you sent me? I ask this question in case further to > your > > response to my question in 3 above, if we will need to rerun the file > again > > using small and 80hz, or can I do it with your further instruction? > > 7. In case your interested, following is the link to the file I should > > have originally sent you. You'll note that the DEQ and midcomp are off. > > However when I use this file I do turn the DEQ on and midcomp off. > > > > > > > https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h7vzxxron67l3zaj90wps/Feb-20.24-AudyMic-As-Tested-Nochanges.ady?rlkey=sbcp84ak4g7pjn8hqlgnti5ir&dl=0 > > > > Overall, the new file you sent me improves the bass slightly and appears > > to keep the clarity and openness of the newly created A1 file. However, > has > > less bass than the original Audyssey file, so I still prefer to have the > > DEQ on, which creates deeper fuller bass. > > Thanks again for all your work and please continue with the amazing > > upgrades, evolution and improvements, benifiting the Home Theater and > Music > > world!! > > CHEERS > > > > — > > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > > < > #9 (comment)>, > > > or unsubscribe > > < > https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACLH4TGUALQMPD3L5FGLONLY5AXDFAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDANJSGM4DINRYGY> > > > . > > You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: > > ***@***.***> > > > > — > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > < #9 (comment)>, > or unsubscribe > < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BHYEVBBCXQODRQL464NTUYLY5BHBRAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDANJSGU3DOOBUGA> > . > You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: > ***@***.***> > — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#9 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACLH4TB5YUYT6QHVZ4HCO3TY5BP5DAVCNFSM6AAAAABFTI7EUWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDANJSGY2DSNRQGM> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>